Cenk Uygur and John Iadarola jump on the regressive demonising bandwagon and smear a teacher, by saying what she said, then saying she means something entirely different.
Many people complained it appeared to be casting blame on women who were raped while drunk. It kept saying it wasn’t blaming those people, but, if you read between the lines …
John has learned well from his Dark Lord master. “Maybe … Just sayin'”
TYT reading between the lines amounts to nothing more than saying the opposite of what the lines say.
Sounds familiar? Of course it does. This is TYT/Cenk rhetoric at work. “You SAY not all Muslims … but, just sayin'”.
We’re going to read a couple of sections for you and analyse them …
In TYT-Cenk-Speak that means you’re going to say it says pretty much the opposite of what it actually says.
So, here’s the part that John and Cenk are going to ‘analyse'”
I saw a quote on Facebook that said, “When a woman drinks too much she expects to wake up the next morning drunk, not raped.” I agree.
See, she says she agrees. She is not blaming to woman for being raped. She agrees the woman should expect not to be raped.
It doesn’t matter how much John, Cenk and everyone else says it, saying that men should take responsibility is a great moral guide – but reality is that some men don’t live by it. That’s the reality that the teacher was addressing.
The teacher goes on to say:
But as women shouldn’t we take responsibility for our bodies for not being so intoxicated that we don’t know what is happening? … No, she’s not asking to be raped by being drunk, but isn’t it her responsibility to reduce the risk by not getting to that point?
Here’s where Cenk chips in:
In the beginning it wasn’t so bad, but when she got to the responsibility part she started to lose me …
Really? Try this:
When a woman drinks too much she expects to wake up the next morning drunk, not smashed up in a car crash because when intoxicated she decided to drive. But as women shouldn’t we take responsibility for our bodies for not being so intoxicated that we don’t know what is happening? … No, she’s not asking to drive drunk and smash her car …
Isn’t this what the teacher means by taking responsibility? She very clearly talks about reducing risks related to what happens when you’re drunk. If the woman isn’t responsible because she’s drunk then she isn’t responsible for crashing her car – but try that next time you’re in court.
I wouldn’t mind, but Cenk himself makes the very same point in his very next words:
No. You have a responsibility to be careful as any human being does …
Whoa! Cenk! You’re victim blaming! … See how easy it is to play your rhetorical bullshit games, Cenk?
Then, Cenk kills this show’s agenda clean out of the water:
Responsibility is kind of a weird word there, because you don’t have a responsibility NOT to be raped …
FFS Cenk, you just made the teacher’s case for her. That is just what the teacher was saying. She agreed responsibility was not related to being raped, but a responsibility not to put oneself in harms way whatever the cause. This is exactly it Cenk, you Knucklehead. It is weird to use it about NOT being raped, which goes to show that as well as explicitly saying so it would be dumb if the teacher did use ‘responsibility’ in that sense.
Who’s using it in that sense? John and Cenk – by ‘reading between the lines’.
Let me help you out here guys:
I hear Cenk Uygur is off to Syria in order to remonstrate with ISIS. TOTALLY not his fault if beheaded, so don’t even think of advising him not to go. Whatever you do, do not tell him to take responsibility for his safety and not put himself in the position where he might be killed. YES, it’s TOTALLY the fault of ISIS if they behead him. We’re not blaming Cenk for wanting to be beheaded. We are suggesting he considers the risk. YES, we want ISIS to stop beheading people – but they do!
John goes on:
Responsibility is a vague word to mean multiple things.
So, on that basis is there any chance of a charitable reading by John and Cenk? Not if there’s a chance to engage in moral outrage where it’s not needed.
Responsibility can means ‘in control of an outcome’ and it also means ‘a moral condemnation’, “You were responsible!”
Reading the quotes from the teacher I’m not sure how anyone but knuckleheads could think she used it in any sense than the former. She was pretty clear: when you’re really drunk you are not in control of outcomes, and because there are some shitty males around you cannot always stop them raping you. YES, it’s their MORAL responsibility, but it’s YOUR responsibility for your lack of control when you’re drunk.
It’s that fucking simple, knuckleheads!
… and when you just use the word and you’re not clear about which way you’re using it …
She fucking well was, you fucking knuckleheads! She was very clear!
Incredibly, John then goes on to make exactly the point the teacher makes – except using regarding locking your car to prevent its theft. Cenk nods along wisely.
I want to come back to the responsibility point in a second …
Right. He’s going to analyse the hell out of it until, Humpty-Dumpty makes this word means exactly what he wants it to mean, nothing more, nothing less.
John reads the more from the teacher:
When men drink their decision making abilities are also limited. If a woman was too drunk to know what she was doing and should be excused for what happens, then why are men not allowed to be too drunk to make good decisions?
Oh, shit, you just know the Knucklehead Brothers are going to read this uncharitably.
This woman might end up being hired by Fox.
Oh the fucking irony of that given TYT’s agendas.
And if a woman is so intoxicated she can’t remember giving consent for sex how can she know she didn’t give consent?
That’s an easy one to answer because the definition of consent precludes the ability to give it while you’re drunk.
Yep. And unfortunately the reality of being drunk precludes the ability of a a drunk guy to know you’re too drunk; or precludes him giving a fuck.
IT’S STILL HIS FAULT! YES, WE KNOW THAT. HE GETS PROSECUTED. BUT SHE’S STILL RAPED!
IF CENK GOES TO SYRIA AND IS BEHEADED IT’S STILL THE FAULT OF ISIS, NOT CENK, BUT HE’S STILL LOST HIS KNUCKLE HEAD!
Well, step up Cenk ‘Mr Logic’ Uygur:
This is hugely problematic. I think I can prove it to you by simple role reversal. She says, ‘she’s drunk, guy is drunk’, it almost sounds like she’s saying let’s call it fifty-fifty.
What? What the fuck? What the serious fuck! Reading between the lines to make the words fit your picture? You are fucking unbelievable.
Even if you don’t think that [that’s what she means] she says, well, she shares some of the responsibility …
No, you fucking knucklehead! You are now conflating the two meanings John spoke of, AND applying them to two different aspects the problem as if they are one. You are now suggesting she means that both are MORALLY responsible FOR THE RAPE. You fucking idiot!
Let’s spell it out again:
THERE ARE RAPISTS! WHEN THEY RAPE IT’S THEIR FAULT, ENTIRELY! WHEN WOMEN GET DRUNK IN ENVIRONMENTS WHERE MEN RAPE, IT’S TOTALLY NOT HER FAULT SHE WAS RAPED. BUT SHE HAS NEGLECTED TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT RISK. IF SHE IS RAPED SHE REMAINS RAPED. IT’S THE GUYS FAULT. BUT SHE HAS BEEN RAPED.
Let’s suppose someone you know, your son, went to a fat party and got drunk and your son passed out, and some other drunk guy raped your son. Now, if someone said, how much responsibility does your son share for being raped that way?
NONE! You fucking knucklehead. And neither does the woman. And the teacher isn’t saying she is responsible for the rape! THE RAPIST IS!
Fuck, this knucklehead really does have a problem with reasoning.
Sons are told often, by responsible* parents that they should be careful. For all sorts of unforeseen scenarios where shit might happen. Sometimes shit happens and you fall over drunk and sprain an ankle. Sometimes you fall off a wall and break a leg. Sometimes you drive a car and smash it up, and maybe kill someone. Sometimes you go to bed drunk and leave your room unlocked and it’s robbed. Sometimes you get drunk with someone unreliable and you get raped. They are your responsibility for being drunk in a dodgy situation. But it’s totally the responsibility the robber and the rapist for what they did. You are not being blamed, as the victim, for those acts.
You are responsible for your safety and the safety of others in all those circumstances. That responsibility is advisory.
In the case of drunk driving that kills someone you are responsible for getting into that situation by being drunk, and you would be advised not to, by making sure your keys are where you can’t get them; but you are also responsible for any death caused in that situation. There is zero problem assigning responsibility both as self preservation control advice, and as a moral agent. It’s TYT that’s confusing these separate issues – even though John himself spells them out!
*Oh fuck, I’m victim blaming for using the term ‘responsible’! I’m saying it’s the parents’ fault when shit happens to their drunk kids? No, you fucking knuckleheads.
I’ve been really drunk at parties. if somebody had raped me at that party would that have been like, “Well, hey, you were drunk big guy!” Nobody would say that!
Not unless they were conflating advice not to get drunk at parties because you’re not in control of your faculties with the act of the rapist. WHICH IS WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING WITH THE TEACHER’S WORDS WHEN SHE EXPLICITLY DECLARED THAT WASN’T WHAT SHE WAS DOING!
I haven’t actually heard that. It’s an interesting point.
No, you knuckleheads haven’t really thought this through. You’ve jumped on another outrage bandwagon, as you have with Black Lives Matter and with Reza Aslan lies and smears.
Don’t put it on women either. Don’t say, “Hey, you got drunk, he got drunk, [shrugs] Oh well, ..”
The teacher wasn’t. And with that, here’s the cherry on the cake, from Cenk:
Please, be a little more decent to one another, and don’t blame people who are the victims here.
Do you think you’re decently and fairly represented what the teacher said? No fucking way, you indecent knucklehead. The teacher is the victim of smears. You’re not merely blaming here for something she didn’t say, you’re ‘reading between the lines’ creatively to actually create the smear.
Fucking unbelievable knuckleheads.
Let me give you an example of victim blaming: Qatar, and many many Muslims**, think women ARE to blame for having sex outside marriage when they are raped.
**Oh fuck! I’m an Islamophobe! I’m obviously blaming ALL MUSLIMS!